Theatre Is A University, A Lifelong Study Of Human Nature

Interview with Sandra Gribovska Ilievska, theatre actress, Bitola, R. Macedonia

Sandra Gribovska Ilievska (Bitola, 1992) is a Macedonian actress and a member of the National Theater Bitola since 2015. A graduate of the Faculty of Dramatic Arts – Skopje, she has worked with renowned directors such as Andraš Urban, Kokan Mladenović, Igor Vuk Torbica, Sebastian Horvat, Qendrim Rijani, and Zlatko Paković, performing in a wide range of classical and contemporary productions. Alongside her institutional work, she actively collaborates with independent theaters and is dedicated to children’s theatre and acting pedagogy. She also pioneered projects in Macedonian sign language theatre, participating in the first productions for both children and adults. With over a decade of experience, Sandra continues to shape her artistic identity as a passionate, versatile, and socially engaged stage actress.

Ivanka Apostolova Baskar: Sandra, in May 2024 you received the Award for Best Young Actress at the 69.Sterijino Pozorje Festival in Novi Sad, for several roles in the play Boat for Puppets based on a text by brilliant playwright/author Milena Marković, and directed by Kokan Mladenović? You are an employed actress at the National Theater Bitola, but what are the personal positive changes in your acting–stage career that occurred during and after receiving this award?

Sandra Gribovska Ilievska: It was a great honor to receive one of the greatest distinctions an actor can receive: the Sterija Award. I can say that this award came as an awakening during an intricate period of my life, a time when I was analyzing and questioning my artistic calling, while brooding on specific aspects of both my professional and personal behavior. I have always believed that theatre must be lived fully, and for me, there’s no other way of practicing theatre than to live it as my life depends on it. The Sterija Award arrived when I had almost forgotten this truth and was doubting whether it’s all worth it, and whether I was on the right path. It has shown me who I truly am, and why I chose to be an actress, sparking profound internal shifts that continue to influence everything I do. It has strengthened my self-confidence and encouraged me to express my opinions openly, without fear of being discredited by those whose judgment I don’t even value. As I mentioned before, the award came when I needed it most – not to make me famous – but to reaffirm my commitment never to be swayed by the mainstream currents of dispassion and indifference, and to protect and nurture my authenticity as much as possible. It has reinforced my resolve to live theatre with passion, and to strive, through small but meaningful actions, to make the world a better place.

IAB: According to which directorial guidelines and what kind of acting instinct and thoughtful feeling did you build your characters (The Little Sister, Alice, Snow White, Marika) and capture all their differences and characteristics through which your transformative acting capacity and layered interpretation of the characters are recognized?

SGI: Since this was our second collaboration with Kokan, we knew each other pretty well, and he was aware of my capabilities and artistic sensibility, which I believe was one of the reasons I was entrusted with the role(s). The biggest challenge for me during rehearsals was the demand of constantly performing in a perpetual frontal stance. This was Kokan’s core idea: he wanted all the play to unfold like fragments of the main heroine’s photographic memory, as if the audience is leafing through the living photo album of her life. In shaping the character(s), I followed my intuition, enriched by the enlightenment I have gained from my previous encounters with Milena Markovic’s works – an author I deeply admire, love, and feel a strong kinship with. Tapping into that source, I employed my childish and youthful delicacy, implementing pieces of my own defying temperament into the character(s). In our play, the Little Sister, Alice in Wonderland, and Snow White are essentially the same person, portrayed at different periods of her youth. Only Marika stands apart, yet even, she stands as a descendant of the main heroine – embodying the cyclical nature of time, endlessly repeating itself.

It’s difficult to put into words how I approached my interpretation, as the process for me was less intellectual and more visceral. It was a deep need to bring everything hidden inside to the surface, an attempt to externalize the eternal longing for something more, the restless desire that drives me to keep moving forward. In that sense, the character(s) aren’t very different from myself, always reaching beyond, always seeking, always hungry for exhilarating experiences that give life its meaning.

IAB: Did you receive a promotion in your job at the home theater after the Sterija Award?

SGI: As of 2025, I have been an actress at the National Theater of Bitola for a decade. This is now my 11th year as part of the ensemble. By this point, I should have already received a promotion, even without winning the Sterija Award. Unfortunately, things don’t move smoothly in our country, and promotions within national institutions are difficult to obtain. I’m still in the same actors group as I was a decade ago, holding on to the hope that I will eventually receive recognition from my home theater and the Ministry of Culture – now even more than ever.

The truth is, it seems the Sterija Award isn’t as valued in our country as in the neighboring ones. In Novi Sad, I was told that by winning the most important theatre award, I should automatically be promoted to the highest actors’ group back home. Yet, when I returned to Macedonia, I realized that the Sterija recognition doesn’t necessarily translate into greater acknowledgment or professional progress at home. Colleagues and friends congratulated me warmly, but on institutional level it felt as though the achievement passed quietly, without the significance it carries elsewhere. Seems that in our cultural environment, even the highest honors can’t open some doors or shift certain perceptions, in a way that one might expect. In Bitola, I even applied for the 4th November Award for yearly cultural achievements with the Sterija Award as my contribution. Not only did I not receive the 4th November recognition from my town, but certain people in the awards committee didn’t know what the Sterija Award truly represents, or that bringing it again to Macedonia is a historical moment for our theatre and culture.

Luckily, the National Theater of Bitola seems to distinguish the significance of the Sterija Award, as well as my artistic and professional contributions to my home theater on the whole. I was told that a process for promotion has been initiated, but no one can say for sure when I will actually receive it from the Ministry of Culture that remains rather ignorant.

IAB: After the Sterija Award, did you receive an offer for collaboration from any of the theaters – producer-directors from Serbia?

SGI: No, I haven’t received an offer from any producers or directors from Serbia. I was invited to a movie casting in Serbia, though I’m not sure whether the invitation was because of the award or just a coincidence.

IAB: What are your next projects in 2025 and 2026? In the first half of 2025, you are not part of the team for the new theater productions, is this a coincidence due to the casting nature, or is it a policy of “punishment” because of the Sterija Award?

SGI: I don’t believe I was punished because I got the Sterija Award. Rather, my exclusion from the new theatre productions supported by the Ministry of Culture in the first half of 2025 was most likely due to the casting requirements of the projects. Even though I wasn’t part of an official Ministry of Culture program production in the first half of the year, I did take part in the play Chobadji Teodos by Vasil Iljoski, directed by our promising young director, Damjan Dimovski. The premiere that was held in May was Damjan’s graduation work, and a production supported by the NTB. In Chorbadji Teodos I play one of the leading roles, or more precisely, the female lead. My collaboration with Damjan and the whole team was truly rewarding, and I think that we made a good and meaningful play. We all worked together to create a somewhat modern version of the story. With the help of the dramaturg Biljana Krajchevska, Damjan introduced some changes in the storyline, and in the end, we managed to bring fresh energy to the stage with a piece that’s both a crucial part of our national heritage and a well-known narrative that remains relevant today. After the premiere of Chorbadji Teodos, I was scheduled to perform in the next NTB production, Carlo Goldoni’s Brawling in Chioggia, directed by our resident director, Jovan Ristovski-Jovica. This didn’t go as planned, as I had to take a personal leave and temporarily pause my career during the summer months.

As of September, I’m officially returning to the stage. My next project is Plamenka by Petre Dimovski, directed by our resident director Sofija Ristevska-Petrusheva, a co-production between Intimate Theatre – Bitola and NTB. Beyond that, I still don’t know how my career will unfold, since I don’t have yet insight into whether I will be part of the other productions planned at my home stage until the end of the year.

IAB: What did you learn as an actress, from working with different domestic and guest/foreign theater directors such as Kokan Mladenovic, Këndrim Rijani, Olja Lozica, Sebastian Horvat, Ivan Penovic, and others.

SGI: I consider myself lucky – firstly, because I began my career in NTB very young, right after finishing my studies, and secondly, because over the past decade I have had the chance to work with important names from our country and the wider region. Not every actor in Macedonia gets that opportunity. Some of the directors I have worked with are the ones you mentioned, but I must also highlight, maybe the most pivotal director in my career, Andrash Urban. My first collaboration with Andrash Urban, Doctor Faust, is my theatre christening, as I like to call it. That process completely turned my world upside down – it has shown me that this is what I love doing most, while widening my perspectives in stage theatre, particularly engaged theatre. Doctor Faust will forever remain a crucial milestone in my career. Up until that moment, I was, roughly put, a young, lost, freshly-graduate student in need of guidance, unsure how to direct my potential. Andrash showed me a way. We clicked right away, and I can proudly say that I can work with him till the end of time. He has constantly pushed me beyond my boundaries, allowing me to deeply explore my inner world, igniting my creativity, and molding my potential. Every actor has that one director in their life.

That is not to say that I haven’t bonded with other directors throughout my career. On the contrary, I have had strong collaborations with most of the directors I have worked with. Everyone has taught me different, invaluable lessons, and it was a pleasure to work with nearly all of them. Theatre is a university of life, and my collaborations have been an integral part of my ongoing lifelong studies of human nature and the mysteries of the internal and external worlds of existence. The directors have guided me toward critical reflection and helped me acknowledge the boundless artistic capacity within me. They have taught me new acting and theatre techniques and skills, challenged my thinking, made me dig deep inside my subconscious and become cognizant of the diverse elements of human subsistence, and helped me master control of my creative energy and artistic talent.

I could speak about this endlessly, but I will wrap it up here. Still, I must add that some directors taught me what I do not resonate with, and which theatre forms feel unchallenging and restrictive. In some processes, including the one with Sebastian Horvat and Olja Lozica, I felt confined in a space where I was almost like a marionette, dancing to someone else’s tune. I understand that some directors work this way, but I also now know that that’s not my cup of tea. I thrive in collaborations that are intense and vibrant, and in which the director builds the magical world together with the team, allowing room for creative autonomy and thought-provoking rehearsals. A good director, in my view, needs to know what they are doing and believe in their vision while at the same time granting a level of independence and letting actors breathe and bring life to the stage.

Sandra Gribovska Ilievska. Photo Credit: Anastazia Hristovska.

IAB: What is your reflection, insight on the theater situations in our country of Macedonia – what are their advantages and disadvantages, institutionally and non-institutionally in the independent scene?

SGI: For several years now, theatre in Macedonia has been going through a hard time. It feels as though a downfall has begun and as if the theatre we once knew and loved is sinking, while we remain powerless to save it. Sometimes I wonder: Do we even want to save it? Not to sound entirely pessimistic; there are, of course, extraordinary glimmers here and there, moments and productions worth mentioning. But, overall, I often feel like we are fighting an invisible war, a battle against something we can’t truly define.

I’m not sure whether this decline is solely based on institutional and financial restrictions, or if it reflects something way deeper: a disease originating from general conformity, a strait-laced mentality, and a collective dissatisfaction with the challenges we face in and outside of the work-field. When everything outside of the theatre bubble becomes more important than the theatre bubble itself, failure is inevitable.

I can’t help but notice with sadness that numerous colleagues with visions and dreams are often cut off at their roots even before they even have a chance to express themselves. Naturally, this fuels frustration, which further poisons our professional relationships. A large majority of people – both colleagues and audiences – behave as if they know everything, clinging stubbornly to foundations that are beginning to collapse. And in the end, it becomes painfully clear that hardly anyone truly knows anything. Perhaps I speak only from an institutional point of view, which makes sense, given the fact that I work within one.

The problem is not a lack of talent, we have talent in abundance. The real issue is that we seem to be unable to nourish, manage, and channel this talent towards its highest potential, and that we don’t even have the suitable conditions for it. That ultimately is the greatest disadvantage; when talent is wasted, when creativity is stifled, and when genuine voices are silenced, theatre loses its essence. It becomes stagnant and lifeless, only a shell of what it should be. In the long run, not only we artists suffer, but also the audience, the culture, and our society as a whole.

IAB: Do the mainstream and alternative media in Macedonia dedicate enough attention, and do they continuously collaborate with theaters and theater practitioners who need media communication and public interaction-exchange, given the new and old professional and non-professional theatre lovers – audience in theaters?

SGI: I’m glad to see that, in the past two years, more alternative media outlets have started paying attention to theatre and theatre-related events. However, I must underline that, in general, we lack strong and consistent critical voices in alternative and mainstream media. What we usually get are just short announcements and news about new premieres and scheduled performances on the existent repertoires. Here and there, I have come across theatre reviews, which I find rather descriptive and superficial. I do value the people who dedicate their time and energy to following Macedonian theatre and offering their thoughts on current productions. I do respect their commitment, yet, I would lie if I didn’t emphasize that, according to my views, those reviews are far from enough.

We need critics who dare to go deeper on a regular level. Critics who aren’t afraid to challenge actors, directors, and institutions, and go far beyond empty praises and shallow summaries. Without a constructive theatre dialog, theatre can easily become one-sided; it can continue to talk, yell, and shout, lacking decent response. The absence of substantial criticism also slows our artistic growth, and theatre becomes repetitive, safe, and predictable, with productions that resemble one another. Theatre is not only about entertainment, and when the stage loses its urgency, theatre also loses its ability to reflect, provoke, and advocate for change. Because theatre is a living thing, it flourishes on a powerful exchange of energy between the artists and the audiences. And when that exchange of energy doesn’t result in an informed, productive, and continuous conversation between creators, critics, and audiences, we risk stagnation. Stagnation which, I’m not happy to say, is more than visible on our stages. While constructive criticism can be uncomfortable, it’s one of the leading difference makers, encouraging evolution and pushing artists and institutions beyond vanity.

IAB: Which theater directors do you wish to work with in the near/far future? And which roles do you wish to realize in your own way through the filter of your talent?

SGI: I’m open to collaboration with every director and colleague that comes my way, as long as they value and appreciate the time, sacrifice, and dedication this profession requires. When it comes to roles, I would really desire to return to Dostoevsky again, as he remains one of my favorite authors of all time. I think that Dostoevsky’s work is a must for every actor and a necessary encounter in a certain point of an actor’s career. Dostoevsky has written some of the most complex, profoundly human characters. His exploration of existentialism makes his characters an inexhaustible source of inspiration, demanding complete devotion and vulnerability from the actors that portray them. Because I’m very interested in the depths of the human psyche, I’m convinced that a Dostoevsky character can help me confront the most intimate parts of me, allowing me to get to the bottom of my darkest fears and highest ideals. The process for which I long for doesn’t only shape a role, it’s a transformative experience that can practically change the life of an actor. That’s why I aspire to tackle a Dostoevsky character a few times in my career, each time with new insights into both life and art itself.

IAB: If in the near or distant future, you get the opportunity and ambition to become the artistic director of your home theater, what are the dramatic texts and director names you would invite to collaborate with the ensemble of the Bitola Theatre? Or what are the changes and innovations that you would programmatically introduce or change? Let us be imaginative.

SGI: I don’t yet feel that I have enough experience for such a responsible position. In a decade maybe, I might find the ambition and the opportunity to become a manager of a theater institution. If such a moment arrives, my first priority would be to ensure that every actor is included in the yearly program, and to select dramatic texts and directors that truly fit the strengths of our ensemble. Together with the directors I would invite, I would try to shape and produce shows in ways that bring out the best in our available talent. I also believe that internal castings should be prioritized, giving every actor in the ensemble a fair chance. If a director has a specific favorite they wish to work with, I would respect their wish without interfering in their artistic choice. Apart from this, I personally believe that a National Theatre should offer a diverse repertoire, including something for different tastes and audiences. A balanced program should leave space and set up the environment for experimental theatre, steering theatre art forms into new territories, while also preserving the classics that endure as the basis of our craft.

Here, I also must add something I hold deeply for some time now: as actors, we seem to forget that our bodies, minds, and souls, or our entire physical, spiritual, and intellectual being is our main instrument. If I ever become an artistic manager, I would want to find a way to encourage us actors to never stop working on ourselves and refining our instrument. Through workshops, projects with varying demands, and caring opportunities, we can continue our growth, always continuing to be open to advancement and knowledge. Without constant and proper care, our craft and instrument risks becoming rusty, and that rust can quietly turn into a comfort zone, which is the greatest danger for an artist.

IAB: Thank you very much, dear Sandra.

Skopje/Bitola, 2025