“The Pillars of the Earth”: Bestseller and Musical. An Exclusive Interview with Ken Follett. Part II

For the first part of the interview go here.

From the earliest musicals, one can trace the creators’ desire to look for ideas for the story among literary works. There are more than a hundred musical shows in existence, that are based on works of fiction or other printed publications. Les Miserables, The Phantom of the Opera, Cabaret, Wicked, Miss Saigon, and other legendary musicals use well-known and not-so-well-known literary works as the basis for the show’s script. If in the last century, the authors tried to find inspiration from classic literature, then in the 21st century there has been a tendency to use the works of modern writers. If we talk about American musicals that made it to Broadway, such examples include Legally Blonde, Мatilda, Hamilton, Be More Chill, Fun Home, The Bridges of Madison County, Mean Girls, Mrs. Doubtfire, etc. European musical theatre producers show no less interest in literary bestsellers.

Thus, composer Iván Macías and lyricist Félix Amador – authors of several successful Spanish musicals, used as the basis for their latest productions El Médico Мusical /The Physician, El Tiempo Entre Costuras /The Time in Between and La Historia Interminable/ The NeverEnding Story – recognized bestselling novels. The world premiere of the new work by the creative duo – the musical Los Pilares de la Tierra/The Pillars of the Earth took place in Madrid in November 2024. The musical is based on the historical novel by the famous British writer Ken Follett, published in 1989.

How do bestselling authors feel about the idea of their works being turned into musicals, and what is their role throughout the process of the show’s creation? We spoke about this before the premiere of the new musical with Ken Follett – the author of the novel The Pillars of the Earth, which is included in the list of the 100 ‘most inspiring’ novels by BBC News.

Ken Follett / Photo Credit by Olivier Favre

Lisa Monde: Not that long ago I had a very exciting conversation with the leading Spanish composer – Iván Macías, who is currently working on a musical based on your famous novel – The Pillars of the Earth. The premiere is set for November 2024. How do you feel about your novel being turned into a musical?

Ken Follett: Well, first of all, I think it’s flattering if somebody wants to take my story and tell it again in a different medium. It’s a tribute to the strength of the story, especially if it’s a success. When you know that a movie or a TV show based on your work is successful – that’s very flattering. I’m not really sensitive about people making changes to my work. I’m not protective about that. So overall having a musical written based on my novel – pleases me.

LM: The Pillars of the Earth is not an easy book to turn into a musical, I would think. It has so many storylines and so many characters. The volume of the work itself – hundreds and hundreds of pages! How do you think this story can be compressed into a two or three-hour musical for the stage?

KF: I’m very happy that that’s not my job. Because my books are densely plotted and there’s not much room for cutting anything because the plot is so interconnected. It’s a difficult job but, you know, one way to do it: is to take a part from the story and concentrate on that. Another way is to tell the same story but to leave a great deal of stuff out. And that’s a skill in itself. Did you know that this is not the first time that a musical has been made of my book?

LM: Yes, I’ve heard of the Copenhagen production of The Pillars of the Earth musical.

Jordens Søjler Episk Musical, The Pillars of the Earth Musical, Denmark, 2016 / Østre Gasværk Teater, Copenhagen / Photo Credit by Dennis Westerberg

KF: Yes, there was a Danish musical in 2016, which was quite successful. And I went to see it; I thought it was absolutely marvelous. Of course, it was in Danish, I might have missed some of the subtleties. But I knew the story anyway, so that made it easy. And the songs were terrific. It was a very positive experience and then the same team did another musical based on one of my books.

LM: Have you been working closely with Iván Macías and the creators of the Spanish musical The Pillars of the Earth?

KF: Not at all. I never do that, and I’ve had a lot of experience with my stories being turned into television series and films. People don’t usually welcome the input from the author and they’re probably right. Because we tell stories in words and television and movies tell stories in pictures and it’s a different skill. Now, telling a story through music is a different skill altogether.

LM: In The Pillars of the Earth all the plotlines are so closely interconnected. It’s probably a loaded question, but which plotlines do you think, for this upcoming musical, could have been sacrificed?

KF: Well, you could lose the beginning, easily. You know, the first long chapter; as Tom Builder is looking for work… It’s a crisis for the family and his wife dies and the newborn child gets adopted by a monastery. All of that could be told easily in a couple of sentences. But you asked me a slightly different question. What strands could be taken out? There are two villains in the story: Waleran Bigod, the bishop, and William Hamleigh. I don’t know, maybe you could lose the royal stuff? Although, they won’t want to lose the royal bits, because they like the pageantry of it.

LM: Now, one of the three main characters is Tom Builder, and then the two villains that you’ve mentioned – when it comes to their reincarnation in the musical – many fans have seen the series, and we have a certain expectation of what those characters could be like. What these characters could look like. When we read a book, we also have a certain image in our minds, that we create as we go along. But for these three characters, which qualities do you think are most important to preserve in the staged productions?

KF: You know, if I’ve read a book and then I go and see the movie, as soon as I see the actor who’s playing the lead, I think that he doesn’t look like what was in the book. And everybody has that feeling. Because you invent a picture of a character in your head primarily. And of course, the actor never looks exactly like the character in the book, how could he possibly? But with a good, strong actor in about 30 seconds you can forget that picture you used to have and accept what that actor is giving you.

LM: How important is the image of the Cathedral when staging the show? Do you think it can imitate what you described in the novel, originally?

Jordens Søjler, The Pillars of the Earth Musical, Denmark, 2016 / Østre Gasværk Teater, Copenhagen / Photo Credit by Robin Skjoldberg

KF: I think it should look fantastic on stage. And it should be incredible, people should go “Wow!” when they see it, and for that I don’t think it needs to be exactly how I described it in the book.

LM: Well, it is impossible, I think, to avoid the analogy with the musical Notre-Dame de Paris by Riccardo Cocciante and Luc Plamondon. Notre-Dame was the main place of action in the show. In many ways the cathedral became an architectural event of a worldly importance due to the novel by Victor Hugo, where it turned into the central character of the story. So, in your novel the Kingsbridge Cathedral, is a very similar character to the Notre-Dame Cathedral, it’s the focal point of the story. Do you believe that the cathedral should have its own musical theme in the show?

KF: Well, it sounds like a good idea to me. And I’m not an expert, but it would be the first thing you would think of, wouldn’t it? A leitmotif if you will.

Los Pilares de la Tierra, The Pillars of the Earth Musical, Spain, 2024 / Teatro EDP Gran Vía, Madrid/ Photo from Lisa Monde’s personal archive

LM: I know that you not only write novels… You also love music, and you play a couple of instruments yourself, you participated in some concerts and were part of several bands. As someone who is a musician, and has a musical ear – imagine if you were writing The Pillars of the Earth musical, how would the Kingsbridge Cathedral sound to you?

KF: Well, of course, it’s very big – so you naturally think of instruments with a low register. That’s probably too obvious because the cathedral is a place where all sorts of things happen. There’s a market right outside. I would draw a parallel here with Mozart’s works – some have a stately theme and then they become fun. Mozart’s tunes are always so great, but you can occasionally hear an unexpected lighthearted twist here and there… That’s how I would approach it.

LM: Now, in the novel, there’s a lot of violence going on: a lot of physical and psychological violence, the story unfolds itself against the background of violence and brutality. There are a couple of musicals out there that have that “bloodthirsty and cruel” background to them, like Stephen Sondheim’s musicals – Assassins and Sweeney Todd, for example. The Evil in those shows is personified, it is vivid; it is judged and punishable. It seems like in The Pillars of the Earth, all that Evil – the murders and the fights, the injustice and everything that’s going on, is so powerful that it’s impossible to avoid it in the stage production, right? It has to be there. How do you think it should be portrayed on stage, in a musical?

KF: That’s difficult, isn’t it? I mean it’s difficult even to write about some of those things. A rape scene, for example, is very difficult to do in fiction because you’ve got to say what happens, but you’ve got to be careful with such a subject. It’s a challenge – I think it must be much more difficult to do on stage than it is in a book.

LM: In the novel you are describing a certain part of the 12th century, medieval England, and in your captivating story there are a lot of dramatic moments; characters are changing throughout the novel – and we see them change. But musicals are usually dedicated to certain issues that concern the society of today, in one way or another, no matter where or when the action is taking place in the story – it needs to be relevant. What is the main message of the novel that you think is extremely relevant nowadays?

KF: I don’t really believe in messages… I don’t think I could have a message that could be any shorter than the book, you know? The book tells how I look at life, what I think are the important things, how people can be manipulated, and how some people can be cruel, and some people can be loving – I can’t single out just one thing, one main message… Look, the producers will invent a message that they need. It could be something about working together as a community or it could be something about building a temple for eternity, for new generations, there are lots of possibilities. But none of them are really mine.

Caspar Phillipson as Prior Philip, Jordens Søjler, 2016/ Østre Gasværk Teater, Copenhagen/ Photo Credit by Dennis Westerberg

LM: Who is your favorite character in The Pillars of the Еarth?

KF: Prior Philip is my favorite character in all the books I’ve ever written. And the interesting thing is, he is so completely different from me that it’s quite striking. I knew I had to have him in this story, I needed at least one attractive character who was a sincere Christian. The story is about building a cathedral, right? And you can have all the people who have other motivations but there must be one person who just wants to follow the Will of God and help his fellow people. I have to say, I wanted to avoid the cliche of “a monk who struggles with his sexuality” with his character. Because it’s overdone. So, I made Philip asexual. He’s certainly not gay. At one point he vaguely remembers being in love with a girl when he was a teenager. Nothing came of it, and he doesn’t miss all that side of life. And that also is not like me. (laughs)

LM: What is another book, another story of yours that you could see being turned into a musical?

KF: I’ve only really ever written one lighthearted book and it’s called Night Over Water. And most of it takes place on a Pan American Clipper, which takes off from Southampton, in England, in 1939. Just about the time of the outbreak of war. What appealed to me was having a whole story unfold on the board of a plane…So I could see how it could be staged. There are some bright and appealing characters in that story. I can see that as a musical because it’s fun. Most of my books are much darker than that but this one isn’t dark at all. And it has that wonderful setting – everybody’s in one place.

Ken Follett at the preview of the musical Los Pilares de la Tierra, The Pillars of the Earth / Photo Credit by Nacho Arias

After attending the recent premiere of the Spanish musical, Los Pilares de la Tierra/ The Pillars of the Earth, Ken Follett stated: “It’s a big moment for me. It is such a testimony to the story I wrote that it can be transformed like this into a completely different medium, but it is still my story. My heart is touched. Everybody, who has seen the show seems to love it. People love this musical the way they love my books.”

The first part of this article is available here.