Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto on the Nintendo Cinematic Universe's future

Nintendo and Illumination’s new animated adventure The Super Mario Galaxy Movie is a massive leap for the franchise. Mario, Peach, and Luigi venture far beyond the Mushroom Kingdom’s confines in the sequel to 2023’s The Super Mario Bros. Movie, rubbing elbows with a surprising array of Nintendo characters on their journey.

Some of those character cameos are expected: The Super Mario Galaxy Movie welcomes old-school Super Mario villains like Wart (a mostly forgotten bad guy from Super Mario Bros. 2) and ROB (the robot toy that was packaged with the original NES). Other cameos are more surprising, like the inclusion of Fox McCloud from the Star Fox games, a major crossover for Nintendo, the likes of which are typically only seen in the Super Smash Bros. games.

Eagle-eyed fans will spot characters from other Nintendo properties in The Super Mario Galaxy Movie. But don’t take it as confirmation that Nintendo and Illumination are working toward some massive, Avengers-style team-up.

During a recent conversation with veteran Nintendo designer and Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto and Illumination CEO Chris Meledandri, the executives told Polygon that they’re always focused on the project at hand. In other words, they’re not trying to build their own cinematic universe (yet).

“I don’t think you’ll have a situation [where] all Nintendo characters would be joining [together in one film],” Miyamoto told Polygon.

“Our process is actually very different from that,” Meledandri added. “It’s much more geared toward conversations about what would be fun within a certain scene in the movie. So these ideas come up based on, ‘Oh, wouldn’t it be fun if Pikmin appeared here? Wouldn’t that be fun?’

“If we agree that it’s a fun idea, then we look to Miyamoto-san to just make his own judgment about whether or not it feels right to him.”

In our Q&A with Miyamoto and Meledandri, we touch on how the two companies think about Mario sequels and spinoffs, the return of Wart to Mario’s rogue’s gallery, and what the executives hope moviegoers take away from The Super Mario Galaxy Movie.

Read on for our full discussion, which features Miyamoto’s comments translated into English.

Polygon: When it became clear that you wanted to make a Mario movie sequel, how did you figure out where to go next? Do you think about the world of Mario in the same way you think of the potential for sequels and spinoffs in the Despicable Me and Minions sense?

Meledandri: When we started talking about the idea, it begins our process of collaboration, where we began to discuss different possibilities. One could have assumed that we might’ve just gone to Super Mario World or Odyssey, and we talked about all those possibilities. But when we began to talk about [Super Mario] Galaxy, there were qualities of Galaxy that were immediately exciting for us; the cinematic possibilities, as well as some of the more dramatic aspects of Galaxy; just the whole feeling of the drama that’s associated with Rosalina as a character and how that’s reflected in the music of Galaxy. That feeling was something we thought could really inform a new story.

Miyamoto: In my discussion with Chris-san after the first movie, when we started talking, we never framed it as a sequel, but we framed it as the next movie. That left an impression on me. Within our discussion, from the Illumination side, the idea of Galaxy potentially came up. As I thought about it, that could work because the first movie really was about adventures in the Mushroom Kingdom and the next evolution would be to expand the world, go out to the galaxy, and it had a lot of potential, as Chris-san mentioned.

When we were making the first movie, we discussed and thought, OK, we’re not going to try to recreate the game. That wouldn’t be fun. But then as we’re working on the movie, we realized there are parts that really align with the game itself. Likewise, when we’re working on this second movie, we didn’t want to frame it as a sequel. And yet, as we’re working through it, there were elements that we thought could be based on the first movie, and there were moments where they were a sequel, and all of it kind of fit together.

With the addition of characters like Pikmin and ROB in the movie and others, I see a lot of people think about the idea of a Super Smash Bros.-style “Nintendo Cinematic Universe.” How much do you want to grow Mario’s world to bring in other characters?

Miyamoto: Right off the bat, I’ll say that unlike something like Super Smash Bros., I don’t think you’ll have a situation [where] all Nintendo characters would be joining. As you know, my rule is that Pikmin can appear in any [Nintendo] series.

As we’re working on this movie, I re-realized how varied and how multi-talented the Mario cast is. When we had kind of ideas from Illumination about, “What about this character? What about that character?” I was like, “Oh yeah, that’s right. We had this. Oh yeah, that’s right. We had that character.” So it really kind of reaffirmed the varied nature of characters in the Mario world. We have plenty of characters to create a movie, and yet we wanted to add a little bit of spice, a little bit of secret cameos here and there. And you’ll see that there’s one secret character that plays a big role.

So I think there might be introductions of characters like this potentially in the future, something like that.

Photo: Sami Drasin for Universal Pictures, Nintendo and Illumination

Meledandri: When you use the term universe, it conjures up for me this idea that there’s a group of really smart people in a room with charts up on a wall and they’re planning the next 10 years of how all the characters might be weaving in and out of movies. Our process is actually very different from that. It’s much more geared toward conversations about what would be fun within a certain scene in the movie. So these ideas come up based on, “Oh, wouldn’t it be fun if the Pikmin appeared here? Wouldn’t that be fun?” And then that conversation, if we agree that it’s a fun idea, then we look to Miyamoto-san to just make his own judgment about whether or not it feels right to him, but it’s much more incidental than strategic.

I want to know how Wart found his way into the movie. As a Wart fan, I’m very excited to see him there. And I’m also going to ask: Why do we see Wart so little in Mario games? Can you tell us why Wart doesn’t get as much love as Bowser does?

Miyamoto: In the world of Super Mario Bros., there’s the “Land” series. And then there’s also Super Mario Bros. 2, where Wart is from. These are characters that specifically only exist in the world of Super Mario Bros. 2, and yet those are characters that I really liked. There’s also Birdo, sort of like Yoshi, but not like Yoshi. I really like those characters. When I got the pitch from Illumination to use some of these characters, I said, “Oh, great. I would love to see them in other mediums.” So it was a great idea.

Meledandri: I believe it was our writer, Matt Fogel, who first came up with the idea of how to use Wart in the film. But what’s amazing about this process of making these movies is that our teams are filled with Nintendo fans. You have people coming up with ideas that go back to what their favorite characters were.

The process of making the movie is always a process of these ideas popping up and then we have this fun discussion about Do they fit? How could they fit? Does it feel right for Miyamoto-san? But we were really happy with how Wart was finally realized in the film.

Mr. Miyamoto, a lot of people will now start to experience or be exposed to Mario through the movies before they play the video games. I’m wondering how that impacts your way of thinking in developing games at Nintendo and if it influences your work in any way.

Miyamoto: When we’re talking about Mario as a character, he’s always evolved alongside the evolution of digital media. As we approach Mario and developing Mario games, I start to feel like there’s only so many people that we can reach through Nintendo’s systems and consoles. And so now with things like digital streaming and the expanse and the reach of what the technology allows now, I feel like that’s a great way to get Mario involved too, and really be able to evolve alongside with digital media.

So going from being able to have a touchpoint with Nintendo only through Nintendo consoles, we want to expand. We’ve been able to expand it so that they can have a touchpoint with Nintendo characters through various media. In that way, instead of people thinking, “What kind of game is Nintendo going to come up with now?” I would love for them to think about, “What kind of world Nintendo will expand on now.”

That’s the kind of approach and thinking I have currently.

Artwork of the super mario galaxy movie, featuring Princess Peach, Toad, and Mario riding in a sailboat

Nintendo and Illumination feel very aligned as companies that want to put smiles on people’s faces, but beyond the entertainment side of it, is there something that you want viewers to take away from the Mario movies, either a message or a feeling?

Meledandri: Something that I really love about Nintendo and about these movies that we’ve made is the element of surprise. You come to see a story about characters that you know and love, but my favorite parts of the film are the parts that really surprise you and that you find delight in the unexpected. It can come in many different forms. It can come in the discovery of emotion connected to your villain character of Bowser. Or whether it’s in the first movie, it’s the vulnerability that we see through Bowser’s adoration of Peach. In Galaxy, it’s a father-son story that you would normally expect to see told with your protagonist, not your villain. So whether it’s visual or it’s comedic, or it’s a new character, or it’s something hidden in the frame, it’s that element of surprise.

Miyamoto: With characters like Bowser, as Chris-san mentioned, there are emotional components that are somewhat difficult to get through the gaming medium, and so being able to then experience that — feeling that through the movies — is Illumination’s magic.

The other thing that I would love for people to do is to actually go to the theater as a family. I always say, “Please cheer Mario on as a whole family.” This idea of a child going to the theater with their parents, that becomes a talking point for them with their friends or with their family. So I would love to see this expand within the family.

The Super Mario Galaxy Movie opens in theaters on April 1.